NTTC John 5:3b-4: Who Took John 5:3b-4 Out of My Bible?

The Reading Culture of Early Christianity From Spoken Words to Sacred Texts 400,000 Textual Variants 02

Please Help Us Keep These Thousands of Blog Posts Growing and Free for All

$5.00

Edward D. Andrews
EDWARD D. ANDREWS (AS in Criminal Justice, BS in Religion, MA in Biblical Studies, and MDiv in Theology) is CEO and President of Christian Publishing House. He has authored over 120 books. Andrews is the Chief Translator of the Updated American Standard Version (UASV).

Major Critical Texts of the New Testament

Byz RP: 2005 Byzantine Greek New Testament, Robinson & Pierpont
TR1550: 1550 Stephanus New Testament
Maj: The Majority Text (thousands of minuscules which display a similar text)
Gries: 1774-1775 Johann Jakob Griesbach Greek New Testament
Treg: 1857-1879 Samuel Prideaux Tregelles Greek New Testament
Tisch: 1872 Tischendorf’s Greek New Testament
WH: 1881 Westcott-Hort Greek New Testament
NA28: 2012 Nestle-Aland Greek New Testament
UBS5: 2014 Greek New Testament
NU: Both Nestle-Aland and the United Bible Society
SBLGNT: 2010 Greek New Testament ()
THGNT: 2017 The Greek New Testament by Tyndale House
GENTI: 2020 Greek-English New Testament Interlinear

The P52 PROJECT THE NEW TESTAMENT DOCUMENTS 4th ed. MISREPRESENTING JESUS

ΚΑΤΑ ΙΩΑΝΝΗΝ 5:3b-4 1550 Stephanus New Testament (TR1550) [WP]

3… εκδεχομενωνwaitingn τηνthe τουof then υδατοςwater κινησινmoving 4 αγγελοςAn angel γαρfor καταfrom καιρονtime to time κατεβαινενdescended ενin τηthe κολυμβηθραpool καιand εταρασσενagitated τοthe υδωρwater οhe/who ουνtherefore πρωτοςfirst εμβαςentered μεταafter τηνthe ταραχηνagitation τουof the υδατοςwater υγιηςwell εγινετοbecame ωaner δηποτεwhenever he κατειχετοwas held by νοσηματι.disease.  

John 5:3b-4 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
… [waiting for the moving of the waters; for an angel of the Lord went down at certain seasons into the pool and stirred up the water; whoever then first, after the stirring up of the water, stepped in was made well from whatever disease with which he was afflicted.]

John 5:3b-4 King James Version (KJV)
… waiting for the moving of the water. For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had.

ΚΑΤΑ ΙΩΑΝΝΗΝ 5:3b-4 (WH NU TGNT) [BRD]

3b-4————

Matthew 5:47a Updated American Standard Version (UASV) See also ESV LEB CSB
3b-4 ——

WH NU TGNT ——
P66 P75 א A* B C* L T D Wsupp 33 itd, I, Q cop[2] Vg Syc

Variant 1 (5:3b) εκδεχομενων την του υδατος κινησιν (waiting for the moving of the waters)
D Ws 33
S: the reading is found in a supplement—a later addition to the manuscript. (Comfort)

Variant 2 (5:4) αγγελος γαρ κατα καιρον κατεβαινεν εν τη κολυμβηθρα και εταρασσεν το υδωρ ο ουν πρωτος εμβας μετα την ταραχην του υδατος υγιης εγινετο ω δηποτε κατειχετο νοσηματι (for an angel of the Lord went down at certain seasons into the pool and stirred up the water; whoever then first, after the stirring up of the water, stepped in was made well from whatever disease with which he was afflicted.)
A* L
* the original, pre-corrected reading

Variant 3 TR (5:3b-4) εκδεχομενων την του υδατος κινησιν αγγελος γαρ κατα καιρον κατεβαινεν εν τη κολυμβηθρα και εταρασσεν το υδωρ ο ουν πρωτος εμβας μετα την ταραχην του υδατος υγιης εγινετο ω δηποτε κατειχετο νοσηματι
(waiting for the moving of the waters; for an angel of the Lord went down at certain seasons into the pool and stirred up the water; whoever then first, after the stirring up of the water, stepped in was made well from whatever disease with which he was afflicted.)
A2 C3 L Θ Ψ 078vid Maj it

9781949586121 BIBLE DIFFICULTIES THE NEW TESTAMENT DOCUMENTS

The earliest and best witnesses (MSS) P66 P75 א A* B C* L T D Wsupp 33 itd, I, Q cop[2] Vg Syc do not have John 5:3b-4 in their exemplar; Other later witnesses (MSS) A2 C3 L Θ Ψ 078vid Maj it[2] did have: “waiting for the moving of the water. 4 For an angel of the Lord would come down at certain seasons into the pool and stirred the water. Whoever went in first after the stirring of the water was healed of whatever disease he had.” This interpolation was added by later scribes to explain the sick man’s answer in verses 7 where he describes ‘the water being stirred up.’

APOSTOLIC FATHERS Lightfoot APOSTOLIC FATHERS I AM John 8.58

It is evident that some verses of the Greek New Testament manuscripts found in the older translations, such as the King James Version, were actually additions that were made by later copyists and were never part of the original Greek New Testament manuscripts. Matthew 17:21; 18:11; 23:14; Mark 7:16; 9:44, 46; 11:26; 15:28; Luke 17:36; 23:17; John 5:3b, 4; Acts 8:37; 15:34; 24:7; 28:29; and Romans 16:24.

4th ed. MISREPRESENTING JESUS King James Bible The Complete Guide to Bible Translation-2

One online article by Michael S. Heiser asks, “Who took John 5:4 out of the Bible?” This is where we have taken the title for our blog article. (Crosswalk.com/Bible Study Magazine)

The following Bible translations have omitted John 5:3b-4 in the main text: ASV RSV NRSV ESV CSB UASV NIV TNIV NEB REB NJB NAB NLT NET. Some of the Bible translations have retained the interpolation in the footnote.

The following Bible translations have retained John 5:3b-4 in the main text: KJV NKJV NASB HCSB.

The 2001 English Standard Version (ESV) says in its footnote on John 5:3b-4: “Some manuscripts insert, wholly or in part …” The 2012 Lexham English Bible (LEB) says in its footnote on John 5:3b-4: “The majority of later manuscripts add the following words …” the 2017 Christian Standard Bible (CSB) says in its footnote on John 5:3b-4: “Some mss include …” The 1995 New American Standard Bible (NSSB) says in its footnote on John 5:3b-4: “Early mss do not contain the remainder of v 3, nor v 4.” None of these footnotes helps the Bible reader even a little. Alone, without being qualified, they mean absolutely nothing. The best of the lot is the note in the NASB. However, what kind of early mss? Of course, the worthlessness of textual footnotes in almost all modern translations is a discussion for another day. The 2018 Updated American Standard Version (UASV) on the other hand has an informative footnote for John 5:3b-4.

Let’s return to the question that Michael S. Heiser asks, “Who took John 5:4 out of the Bible?”

English Bible Versions King James Bible KING JAMES BIBLE II

Textual scholars in footnotes or textual commentaries speaking of text in manuscripts as having been omitted or missing is using a poor choice of words because what was never there cannot be missing or having been omitted. Thus, the point to be made here is the language that one uses is important. You cannot take anything out that was never there in the first place. We are certain beyond a reasonable doubt that the interpolation of John 5:3b-4 was added by a later scribe and was not part of the original text. Therefore, again, we must plainly ask, how does a translation take “out” words or phrases that were never “in” in the first place? I will assume that when Michael S. Heiser asks “Who took John 5:4 out of the Bible?” he meant the King James Version Bible and other pre-1900 translations as his article infers. But what causes the confusion is the diehard KJV readers and the even more so the radical KJVO (King James Version Only) readers view the KJV as the original Bible in English. Therefore, when Michael S. Heiser asks, “Who took John 5:4 out of the Bible?” the KJV readers and KJVO readers see that as being equal to asking “Who took John 5:4 out of the original?” This may even be the case with other Bible translation readers to, such as the ESV, NASB, NIV, and others.

The Epistle to the Hebrews Paul PAUL AND LUKE ON TRIAL

Michael S. Heiser also asks,

Why would verse 4 have not been included in the original New Testament? It is not because of the angel in the story. The Bible has no problem with angels; they’re all over the place, doing all sorts of things. But, like today, there was a great deal of folklore and superstition about them. The idea that an angel stirred the waters at a given time during the year was one such superstition. John 5:7 mentions the stirring of the water but does not mention the angel. It’s likely that John knew of the belief about the waters of Bethesda but chose to leave it out for a specific reason. Perhaps he does not wish to endorse that an angel was stirring the water. By excluding the popular belief about the angel, John focuses his readers on the healer who was indeed present—Jesus.

Here is where Michael S. Heiser, in his article, causes confusion, ambiguity, a problem for his readers. It sounds as though he believes the words (the account about the angel stirring the water) at John 5:3b-4 were original in some way (maybe an oral tradition) but that John left them out to avoid superstition and to focus on Jesus. Heisler writes, “It’s likely that John knew of the belief about the waters of Bethesda [being stirred by an angel] but chose to leave it out for a specific reason.” How can we suggest that John had known about something that is not mentioned in the original by him or any other Gospel, nor any other NT author? It is true, however, that three Church fathers, two Latin one Greek, cited the account: Tertullian (c.155–c.222), Ambrose (4th century), John Chrysostom (c.347–c.407). Whether this was an early oral tradition that a later scribe inserted into the text is not known.

REASONING FROM THE SCRIPTURES APOLOGETICS CONVERSATION EVANGELISM

What we do know is this. In looking at the external evidence, the best and earliest manuscript evidence does not contain this interpolation. In looking at the internal evidence, the style and vocabulary are not Johannine. Why would John use κινησιν [to set in motion, to move] in verse 3b and then use ταρασσω (to agitate, trouble, as water) later in verses 4 and 7? Then, we have εμβας [stepped in], which is not the usual word for getting into the water, it is καταβαινω [to come or go down, descend, to lead down, to come down, to be let down]. There is ω δηποτε [of whatsoever KJV), whatever, no matter what], which is a unique construction that does not occur anywhere else in the Greek New Testament. As well, νοσηματι [disease] is a unique word that does not occur anywhere else in the Greek New Testament. Scribal activity suggests that it is highly unlikely that a scribe would have omitted the verse because it mentioned a seemingly odd, even superstitious action of an angel.

Short Reminder

If we have the original words, we, in essence, have the original and; therefore, do not need the original documents.

Please Help Us Keep These Thousands of Blog Posts Growing and Free for All

$5.00

SCROLL THROUGH DIFFERENT CATEGORIES BELOW

BIBLE TRANSLATION AND TEXTUAL CRITICISM

4th ed. MISREPRESENTING JESUS King James Bible The Complete Guide to Bible Translation-2
The Reading Culture of Early Christianity From Spoken Words to Sacred Texts 400,000 Textual Variants 02
The P52 PROJECT THE NEW TESTAMENT DOCUMENTS 4th ed. MISREPRESENTING JESUS
APOSTOLIC FATHERS Lightfoot APOSTOLIC FATHERS I AM John 8.58
English Bible Versions King James Bible KING JAMES BIBLE II
9781949586121 BIBLE DIFFICULTIES THE NEW TESTAMENT DOCUMENTS

BIBLICAL STUDIES / INTERPRETATION

CALVINISM VS. ARMINIANISM THE NEW TESTAMENT how-to-study-your-bible1
How to Interpret the Bible-1 INTERPRETING THE BIBLE how-to-study-your-bible1
israel against all odds ISRAEL AGAINST ALL ODDS - Vol. II AN ENCOURAGING THOUGHT_01

EARLY CHRISTIANITY

THE LIFE OF JESUS CHRIST by Stalker-1 The TRIAL and Death of Jesus_02 THE LIFE OF Paul by Stalker-1
The Epistle to the Hebrews EARLY CHRISTIANITY-1 BIBLE DIFFICULTIES
THE LIFE OF Paul by Stalker-1 Paul PAUL AND LUKE ON TRIAL

CHRISTIAN APOLOGETIC EVANGELISM

PAUL AND LUKE ON TRIAL THE NEW TESTAMENT DOCUMENTS BIBLE DIFFICULTIES
The Epistle to the Hebrews Paul PAUL AND LUKE ON TRIAL
REASONING FROM THE SCRIPTURES APOLOGETICS CONVERSATION EVANGELISM
Young Christians AN ENCOURAGING THOUGHT_01 EARLY CHRISTIANITY-1
INVESTIGATING JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES REVIEWING 2013 New World Translation INVESTIGATING JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES
Jesus Paul THE EVANGELISM HANDBOOK
REASONING FROM THE SCRIPTURES REASONING WITH OTHER RELIGIONS APOLOGETICS
REASONABLE FAITH Why Me_ FEARLESS-1
Satan BLESSED IN SATAN'S WORLD_02 HEROES OF FAITH - ABEL
is-the-quran-the-word-of-god UNDERSTANDING ISLAM AND TERRORISM THE GUIDE TO ANSWERING ISLAM.png
DEFENDING OLD TESTAMENT AUTHORSHIP Agabus Cover BIBLICAL CRITICISM
Mosaic Authorship HOW RELIABLE ARE THE GOSPELS WHY DON'T YOU BELIEVE
The Holy Spirit_02 THE CREATION DAYS OF GENESIS gift of prophecy

TECHNOLOGY

9798623463753 Machinehead KILLER COMPUTERS
INTO THE VOID

CHRISTIAN THEOLOGY

The Holy Spirit_02 Explaining the Doctrine of the Last Things Understaning Creation Account
Homosexuality and the Christian second coming Cover Where Are the Dead
The Holy Spirit_02 THE CREATION DAYS OF GENESIS gift of prophecy
CHRISTIAN THEOLOGY Vol. CHRISTIAN THEOLOGY Vol. II CHRISTIAN THEOLOGY Vol. III
CHRISTIAN THEOLOGY Vol. IV CHRISTIAN THEOLOGY Vol. V MIRACLES
WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF YOU DIE Human Imperfection HUMILITY

CHILDREN’S BOOKS

READ ALONG WITH ME READ ALONG WITH ME READ ALONG WITH ME

PRAYER

Powerful Weapon of Prayer Power Through Prayer How to Pray_Torrey_Half Cover-1

TEENS-YOUTH-ADOLESCENCE-JUVENILE

THERE IS A REBEL IN THE HOUSE thirteen-reasons-to-keep-living_021 Waging War - Heather Freeman
Young Christians DEVOTIONAL FOR YOUTHS 40 day devotional (1)
Homosexuality and the Christian THE OUTSIDER RENEW YOUR MIND

CHRISTIAN LIVING

GODLY WISDOM SPEAKS Wives_02 HUSBANDS - Love Your Wives
ADULTERY 9781949586053 PROMISES OF GODS GUIDANCE
WALK HUMBLY WITH YOUR GOD THE BATTLE FOR THE CHRISTIAN MIND (1)-1 WAITING ON GOD
ADULTERY 9781949586053 PROMISES OF GODS GUIDANCE
APPLYING GODS WORD-1 For As I Think In My Heart_2nd Edition Put Off the Old Person
Abortion Booklet Dying to Kill The Pilgrim’s Progress
WHY DON'T YOU BELIEVE WAITING ON GOD WORKING FOR GOD
YOU CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE Let God Use You to Solve Your PROBLEMS THE POWER OF GOD
HOW TO OVERCOME YOUR BAD HABITS-1 GOD WILL GET YOU THROUGH THIS A Dangerous Journey
ARTS, MEDIA, AND CULTURE Christians and Government Christians and Economics

CHRISTIAN COMMENTARIES

Book of Philippians Book of James Book of Proverbs Book of Esther
CHRISTIAN DEVOTIONALS
40 day devotional (1) Daily Devotional_NT_TM Daily_OT
DEVOTIONAL FOR CAREGIVERS DEVOTIONAL FOR YOUTHS DEVOTIONAL FOR TRAGEDY
DEVOTIONAL FOR YOUTHS 40 day devotional (1) daily-devotional_darker

CHURCH ISSUES, GROWTH, AND HISTORY

LEARN TO DISCERN Deception In the Church FLEECING THE FLOCK_03
The Church Community_02 THE CHURCH CURE Developing Healthy Churches
FIRST TIMOTHY 2.12 THE NEW TESTAMENT EARLY CHRISTIANITY-1

Apocalyptic-Eschatology [End Times]

Explaining the Doctrine of the Last Things Identifying the AntiChrist second coming Cover
ANGELS AMERICA IN BIBLE PROPHECY_ ezekiel, daniel, & revelation

CHRISTIAN FICTION

Oren Natas_JPEG Sentient-Front Seekers and Deceivers
Judas Diary 02 Journey PNG The Rapture

3 thoughts on “NTTC John 5:3b-4: Who Took John 5:3b-4 Out of My Bible?

Add yours

  1. You are right, this is why I put together the NT MATIS (interlinear) that compares the Aramaic Peshitta to the Greek KJV. I wanted to see what was added and taken away.    MATIS (interlinear) TORAH Sample Pdf:  https://alephtavscriptures.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/MATIS-RED-LETTER-EDITION-CCB-56-pg-SAMPLE.pdf   MATIS (interlinear) WRITING Sample Pdf: https://alephtavscriptures.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/MATIS-Red-Letter-WRITINGS-888pg-Sample.pdf   MATIS (interlinear) PROPHETS Sample Pdf: https://alephtavscriptures.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/MATIS-Red-Letter-PROPHETS-1060-pg-Sample.pdf   MATIS (interlinear) GOSPELS Sample Pdf: https://alephtavscriptures.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/MATIS-NT-GOSPELS-76-Pg-Red-Letter-SAMPLE.pdf   MATIS (interlinear) ACTS – REVELATION Sample Pdf: https://alephtavscriptures.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/SAMPLE-MATIS-Volume-5-Acts-Rev-Red-Letter.pdf  

Leave a Reply

Powered by WordPress.com.

Up ↑

%d bloggers like this: